Please note: I’ve used an AI transcription service, which means there’s probably plenty of errors. At some point I’ll get a human to correct it.
So to provide a little bit of context, I think it’s worth taking you back to about summer 2015. This is when I just recently graduated from my Law degree at university, and I was feeling pretty lost to say the least. I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do. I’d just spent the past three years studying law, only to realize that it wasn’t a path that I really wanted to go down.
And so I was at a loss about what to do. And during my time at university, I pretty much spent the vast majority of my time studying everything other than law. I was always really interested in investing even from a really young age, despite having not very much money to invest. I was reading the likes of Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Benjamin Graham’s The Intelligent Investor.
So there was that dimension to it, even though, again, I didn’t actually have that much money. I didn’t have millions to start a career with investing. I also spent a lot of time studying marketing and entrepreneurship. That was always something that interested me. I’d pretty much consumed everything by Gary Vaynerchuk around the time. I was obsessed with him. And it seemed like a no-brainer that ultimately this whole internet thing wasn’t going to be going away anytime soon with the likes of Twitter, Facebook, YouTube.
It made sense that despite whatever path you’re going to go down, whatever kind of business you’re going to set up, you’re probably going to need to have some kind of handle on how to use these things. So that just seemed like a bit of a no-brainer for me to study. But at that time still just graduating from the degree, no immediate application for any of that knowledge at all.
So again, I was lost and it’s not an entirely unique position. I think so many people out there in the world who have finished school or university or college with no idea about what it is they ultimately want to do with their lives. But hey, I was in the exact same situation that many other people find themselves in. And ultimately I figured that since I’ve already spent a bunch of time studying the likes of Gary Vee and Seth Godin, let’s just try going down that digital marketing route. And so I was started looking for jobs in that field, internships, jobs, whatever I could find, essentially I’m from the South Wales valleys, which is not an area. Typically we have all sorts of big digital marketing agencies to work for. So I had to go to my nearest big city, which for me was Cardiff.
And so that’s what I did. And ultimately managed to find an internship at a digital marketing and PR agency, which I worked at. It was unpaid. I did have my kind of commute cupboard, which was an absolute nightmare I took, but based on where I was and were out to get to for work, I had to take about four trains in total, which even though they weren’t necessarily long trains because of the fact that as you know, with the timing of these things between one train and another, you can typically wait 20 minutes to half an hour sometimes. And it ultimately meant that overall I would spend about three hours of my day after work in a full day of saw nine till five, just commuting, which sucked, especially when I wasn’t paid. And eventually I was able to take up or I was offered a paid position for about 1000 pounds per month.
It was a kind of a bridge between unpaid internship and full employment. I was about a thousand pound a month, but when you take in, at that point, the, you know, I’d have to cover my own commute, which was about 300 pounds per month out of a thousand men that take home was only about 700 pounds. And that was in total workdays of sort of 10, 11, 12 hours when you include the three hour commute into there as well. So 600 pound a month for incredibly long, stressful days. Uh, it wasn’t the best. And so it wasn’t too long where I got kind of sick of that, to be honest. And so I figured, Hey, am I kind of youthful naivete? Let’s just try and do this myself. Let’s try and do this ditch digital marketing thing. And so that’s what I did. I essentially tried to kind of setting up my own agency that I ran from home, approaching local businesses, asking if they have any needs around social media or websites, almost whatever service they need, I would try to offer it.
And, uh, and that’s what I did. And it’s a tough gig. It really is. There was a lot of cold calling, a lot of rejection. It was very, very tough to say the least, but also you learn a lot doing that. But the more I did that specific gig of the kind of social media marketing, I realized that I wasn’t too fond of that either. Uh, for me personally, the whole kind of customer service client handling part of it was, it was a nightmare. I just found most people incredibly difficult and frustrating to deal with. And I remember even though these weren’t particularly awful people or anything at all, they were fine. It was just for me, I don’t like a kind customer service role. There were times where I just think to myself, I’m doing this work and for what they’re paying me, I almost feel like paying them just so I don’t have to do this.
That’s how much ultimately I disliked it when I made a website and people wanted a gazillion alterations to something I just spent hours doing. It was, it was very frustrating. And so just like with law, I figured this wasn’t a path I could realistically see myself doing for the rest of my life either. And so again, I fell into this kind of pit of existential angst and feeling lost, then not knowing what on earth to do with myself. And so at that point, I just figured, Hey, you know what, let’s just experiment a lot. Let’s try a whole bunch of new things. And so, you know, I set up a YouTube channel, started making some content the right time, just to learn, familiarize myself with how YouTube worked and at the same time, because I still had to get money in, I was still doing the kind of freelance social media stuff.
Occasionally had a very small number of clients that I did that for. And they also just took up part time jobs to get money wherever I could. I did a bunch of random things, including the likes of being an exam. Invigilator at one point, which is by far the worst job I’ve ever had, where time essentially stands still. And a three hour English literature exam or something was almost just hell on earth to actually go through and moderate as an exam invigilator. So there was that I also worked as a kitchen assistant and my local restaurant, which was very humbling again, as a kind of law graduate with ideas in my mind of what ultimately kind of profession I would be going into to know be taken apart time. It was essentially the delivery chef for a restaurant where I’d have to come in seven o’clock in the morning, handle the delivery of all the fries and the meats and the steaks and the vegetables and everything.
You can see off for a restaurant that was my job. And because they were kind of short staffed at the time, quite often, I would have to actually fill in for the regular kitchen assistant walls anyway. And so there were days right, enter the workplace at seven o’clock in the morning and not leave till 10:00 PM at night. So extremely hard, tough grueling low-paid work that I guess, instilled a good sense of kind of work ethic, but again, very humbling and very tough. And also something that I knew I ultimately definitely didn’t want to be doing for the rest of my life. And so looking back, this was a really tough, frustrating time, just because I didn’t know specifically what to direct all this energy, the light towards something, right. I had all this energy that I wanted to vote somewhere, but I couldn’t find the right thing.
Nothing was really sticking for me. And so, yeah, it was very, very tough time. It was at this time around that I did what I think it was a very kind of typical millennial thing to do, which was to Google and YouTube life purpose, right. To try and find any resources, materials, channels out there that could help steer me and help me figure out where to go, what to do. And so there were a bunch of people I found at that time, some of which were very helpful. I think Elliot holes at that time was pretty awesome, but there was one person, one character in particular, they found and resonated enormously with me. And that was Alan Watts, who was a video. He made something about, you know, if money wasn’t an object, what would you do? And how would you spend your time? And that, that really resonated with me a lot.
And suddenly I just became obsessed with everything. Alan Watts had to say, I bought all of his audio books. I consumed all of his lectures, hundreds and hundreds of hours worth. And it was really incredible. And if you don’t know who Alan Watts is, he’s essentially a kind of Western philosopher who spent a large amount of time out in the East gain in those kind of Eastern perspective of the likes of Buddhism, especially Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, and Sikhism, which of course is very different to the kind of Judeo Christian beliefs that we’re all very familiar with in the West. And so it was amazing. I gained these kinds of new perspectives, new ways to look at the world. It brought me an immense sense of calm, a love warrior, a lot of what he had to say. And so there was an enormous amount of the value that I got from him.
And I was hungry for more seminar information, having this exposure to these radical new perspectives that brought me a ton of value made me question or think about what are the alternative viewpoints right there in the world? What are the ways can I gain a fresh perspective on life and on the universe as a whole? And so that’s why I did. I went on the lookout for, you know, Googling people similar to Alan Watts, even something as basic as that. And it was only a matter of time before I discovered these, this group of people known as the Psychonauts. And again, to define the Psychonauts, if you’re not familiar with, and these are essentially people who use, um, ways to alter their consciousness, typically through the medium of psychedelics to happy the spiritual experiences, or just to experience the universe itself in a, in a different way, and to gain fresh new perspectives, which was, I guess, at that time, something that very much appealed to me.
And so I went way, way down that rabbit hole of the Psychonauts again, exposure to a whole bunch of new, amazing, brilliant people. One of which perhaps my favorite of those was Terence McKenna who wrote the, a popular book known as food of the gods, which talks about the quite profound impact that psychedelics have actually had throughout human history in terms of culture development of religion. And arguably this is quite controversial, but perhaps even the kind of biological evolution of humans as well, so immensely interesting. I’d very much recommend reading that if you haven’t done so already. And again, just this exposure to these new perspectives, I enjoyed so much. And I think this is what ultimately helped steer me into the direction of crypto and being so quick to actually embrace that. When I know that many people are very kind of hostile and reluctant to buy into it at first, I think because I had already developed this open mind from being exposed to so many incredibly awesome, radical new perspectives in such a short amount of time helped me with that.
But we’ll go into that in a little bit later on, but by this point now we’re went into 2016 just to provide a kind of framework of where we are chronologically. So again, searching for more similar people now that I’ve gained these amazing perspectives from the Psychonauts. I was searching on Reddit for the similar people in this, in this realm of the kind of Terence McKenna’s and the Alan Watts of this world, and a subreddit, someone on a commons run, Reddit led me to the Joe Rogan experience. This podcast I’d never really heard of before, but Hey is meant to be pretty good. They recommended people such as Duncan, Trussell and Dennis McKenna. And so, Hey, I figured, you know, let’s give this a try. I got really into that. I became a huge fan of Joe Rogan before it really took off massively. And the kind of force that it is these days.
Of course, everyone knows Joe Rogan these days, but back late 2016, I think it was still a kind of well kept secret for some people. It was popular of course, but it wasn’t game that the kind of cultural force that it is today. And so I began just immersing myself in that and watching, or trying to watch as many of these podcasts I possibly can. And then it comes to September. I think there are about 2016 where there’s an appearance by a gentleman who goes by the name of Andreas and to Nepalis. And this came up on my feed, your new Joe Rogan episode, who’s this guy, this Greek fellow, of course, and the description of all these things, they describe briefly who he is. And I saw that this guy had something to say about Bitcoin, which is something I’d kind of vaguely, vaguely heard of, but there was no context for me.
I’d never really known anyone personally who discussed it or who was into it. So this was completely new. But again, because I just so recently benefited from all these new perspectives around Eastern philosophy. And of course the Psychonauts psychedelics, I figured, Hey, let’s just go into this with a really open mind. And let’s just see, you know, I don’t feel strongly one way or the other and just go into it with a complete open mind. And wow, my mind was blown. I think it was about a three hour podcast, thereabouts, which is not unusual by any means at all for Joe Rogan. And I still remember to this day exactly where I was, how I was consuming it because it had such an immediate, profound impact on me. I remember, you know, these podcasts was something I like to listen to late at night when I was kind of settling down, ready to go to sleep.
So the lights were off, the room was dark. I was just in bed, eyes closed. So listening to this and I was captivated throughout the entire three hours. I was only planning on listening to it for, you know, half an hour to an hour or so before drifting off. But I was up late til 12 one, maybe two o’clock at night listening to this. And I just knew there. And then that things would never be the same again for me in terms of my own, um, outlook on the world and potentially what I was going to do now, because I realized this spills, right, this, it kind of lit the fire in me. And I knew that I was going to have to explore this further. And he was just almost instantaneous obsession that even to this day has never really gone away. And so that’s what I did almost immediately from them the day after I was all over YouTube, Google, Reddit, Twitter, wherever I could possibly get hold of information that I could about crypto Bitcoin, whatever this new world was.
I was there. And even on YouTube, I can remember looking back watching videos by the likes of, at that time. I think two figures really stick out for me, Omar, bam, which of course we know as cryptos news still an awesome do to this day and Travon James, who of course now is notorious for what happened with bit connect. But this was before all that, this was back when he just made videos in his car with that kind of classical music playing in the background, talking about his favorite coins. And so that’s what I did. I just instant became obsessed just constantly every week and minute of the day, absorbing whatever information I could about this stuff. And of course I knew him and I knew instantly from the Andrea’s podcast, there was something I was going to be investing in. And I already had that kind of contextual understanding and passionate about investing anyways.
So this was almost like a perfect fit to begin with. And I still remember, you know, thinking, okay, let’s do it. How do I gain exposure to this stuff? Let’s get hold of some. I remember finding it bit of a nightmare, trying to get hold of legitimate sites that I felt weren’t going to steal my money was a pain. And even when you did eventually find a legitimate website, the whole process of getting your profile validated and confirmed was a new, but Hey, sooner or later, a matter of days, weeks we got there eventually. And so that’s what I did. And as soon as I could, I invested pretty much everything I had to my name, every single penny, every single penny that I made from every summer working jobs, since the age of, I don’t know, 15, 16, I was about 21, 22, 23 at that point.
So every penny I’d ever made thrown right into Bitcoin, which at that point, at that time, like in the price point was just under $1,000. So it gives you an idea. So pretty good even to this day made pretty good gains there. I did a teeny bit leftover that. I took a bit of a pump where the kind of a gamble, I guess, on this thing called a theory, which I wasn’t even familiar with at the time. Really. I didn’t know much about it. All I knew was that it was on this website and I knew that, uh, Omar bomb, you know, cryptos news was a big fan of it. I think I remember him talking about it and said that he was mining it at this time. So I thought, Hey, you know, this thing at this time was below $10. I thought, again, just worth a lot of pertinence, just see.
And, um, it was after I bought a theory and that I decided, Hey, since I bought this thing, I should probably actually learn a thing or two about it. That’s when, of course I did more research and realized, Hey, this is actually pretty awesome. This is pretty cool. Even though I didn’t have the perfect understanding of what it was at that time. I had a sense that if you just have this more kind of generalized blockchain that has the dexterity and the kind of true and completeness that Bitcoin doesn’t have, I knew you could do some interesting things with it, even though I didn’t know exactly what at the time, I didn’t really have that understanding. I just thought, Hey, let’s just do it. And for the next few months after that, since I had already poured every penny I had to, my name it’s Bitcoin.
I figured, Hey, for the next few months now, since I already have some Bitcoin, let’s just use all my spare money every single month in my income to buy Ethereum. So that’s what I did. I loaded up as much theorem as I could, you know, from then on, uh, quickly the price Rose from sub tans, like kind of $42. They’re about, so I remember harbored there for awhile, but still I was very happy and excited that time about Bitcoin and now Ethereum too. And I think one interesting observation we’re making at this point is that for me, this was very much a solo journey, which I think is in stark contrast to most people out there. I think most people’s exposure to crypto for the first time comes from some kind of tip off, either from a friend or relative or colleague at work. It’d be this guy saying, Hey, there’s this thing called Bitcoin or crypto, you should check out and investing that wasn’t the case for me, my experience was very much a solar journey and it came exclusively from my own adventures on the internet.
The internet was where I got all these incredible perspectives from the likes of, again, they’re kind of Eastern philosophers, Alan Watts to the Psychonauts now Bitcoin. So I’m always immensely grateful for the internet, but this was a very much a solo journey. And so for me, I felt like I was the one who introduced my friends and my relatives and my colleagues at that time to the world of Bitcoin. I was that kind of first introduction for them. And for pretty much everyone across the board, it was very, the reaction was very hostile and I guess, close minded. And it was instant rejection, instant, no, this is dumb. This is a Ponzi scheme. This is a scam. This’ll never work. This isn’t real money. Are you part of a cult or something now what’s wrong with you? And so it was kind of sad to see this kind of half rejection from the people.
I actually am my own life and the kind of fiscal world absent of what was going on in the internet. But I don’t know, something just felt right. I just felt like, I feel like I am right about this, or I don’t know. I just felt like it was worth ignoring what everyone had to say. And I stuck with it and persistent, and as I briefly mentioned earlier, Ryan, at the same time, I was still very much experimenting on YouTube. So these videos aren’t actually around anymore, I’ve kind of removed all of them. A lot of them are quite embarrassing, but at the time I had a very small channel sub 1000 subscribers talking about all kinds of random topics. Really there was politics in there. There was some of the psychedelics content on there, which of course is why I had to remove it as well so that I don’t get strikes on YouTube and all that kind of stuff.
It’s very controversial. Uh, society just kind of daily, almost like blogging, what was going on with my life. It wasn’t, the subject matter was so important. I just wanted to build a skills for growing an audience on YouTube, that kind of marketing perspective on it. But I didn’t, I kind of share what I’ve perspectives I’d gained at that time as well from the likes of Alan Watts. And by that time, it appeared to me, you know, it might be worth making content around this whole crypto thing as well, especially since actually this was consuming all of my spare time at the moment. This is what I was most passionate about, more than anything else. And so I figured maybe it’s worth it or maybe not. Cause I was also aware that, Hey, if this thing really is going to take off in terms of my own personal security, it might not be the best idea to have a kind of public image or public name around this, better off just being an anonymous, which I do believe to this day for most people, absolutely they’re better off being anonymous, but it got to the point where I was so passionate about this.
And since I was making YouTube videos, anyway, I figured, Hey, you know what, it’s worth the risk. I’m just going to go for it anyway. And Hey, if this thing never works out, if it never takes off, then nobody’s going to remember anyway. And if it does take off in a major way, Hey, that might benefit me somehow. That might be pretty cool. I might be able to build of a brand about this. And so that’s what I did in March, 2017 time. I think it was when I, and eventually took the plunge. I made a video sharing with the world that I’d invested my life savings into a combination of Bitcoin and Ethereum. And you can still check out this video to this day. I think that’s the first, these days, that’s the first video listed on my channel and the reaction to it was awesome.
It was one of the most exciting times to see all of a sudden gain. All these views. A bunch of extra new subscribers were really positive. Comments are great lights, the dislike ratio. And I figured, Hey, you know what this is doing so well, this is doing better than all my other content. That’s just do more of it. And so that’s what I did slowly, but surely I made the transition from a channel talking about all kinds of things, politics, society, drugs, whatever else, transition into that of crypto and essentially became a crypto channel. And it feels like from there, the rest was history. Of course, 2017 was just the best year ever both in terms of my own career, if you want to call it that. And of course investing as well, because by that time, the things that I had, the Bitcoin Ethereum had exploded even by the summer, my Ethereum, some of which I bought below $10 was now 400 plus.
So just amazing surpassing all my expectations to 2017 best year ever. By the end of that, towards the very end of that year, there were videos where I got a million plus views. Then 2018 was basically the absolute reverse. It was the worst year ever, suddenly everything I’d bought built, it felt like it was just collapsing. My views were gone, the income was gone. The investments, the crypto investments are reduced between 18 90% horrible year and things sort of stabilize. I reach a kind of decent equilibrium in 2019 to 2020, which of course is where we are now. And so that leads us to where we are right now in the present day. And I feel like it was, it’s just worth going over some of the lessons that I feel I learned from those early days from that journey up to this point. And so I just wanted to share some of those with you now to hopefully take some value from as well.
I think the first of which looking back the real kind of lesson and the value that I got from this experience is the importance of having an open mind and to be curious and not be closed minded to things in the world, because it’s always so easy to dismiss anything as a scam or something hopeless or a stupid idea at first, but you never know when there might be just an amazing opportunity in life and you always want to be respect receptive to any possible great opportunities out there. That was something I learned very quickly from exposure to all these new ideas, again, from the likes of the Psychonauts or Alan Watts with Eastern perspective. So that was a lesson I learned pretty early on that if you have an open mind, you can be exposed to some really awesome things that can lead to a better life.
And so that, that’s what ultimately, I think that’s me being so receptive to crypto and being able to buy as much as I did before things really exploded because almost instantly I didn’t take too much time for convincing. There are probably people in this world who knew about crypto far earlier than I did, but we’re simply close minded to it. And it took them a very long time before they actually got invested in. So of course, while you want to be critical and skeptical and challenge everything you hear, I think it’s also important just having an open mind to, in order to be able to take advantage of those rare once in a lifetime or once in a decade opportunities out there to make enormous amounts of money or anything in life, any great opportunity that comes around. And every once in a while, I think it’s important to be receptive to that and not be too closed off to whatever is going on out there.
I think looking back as well, there was enormous value in going against the grain and thinking for yourself, because again, for myself personally, everyone around me, everyone in my life, friends, relatives, colleagues were all very hostile to this idea of crypto and Bitcoin at first. And if I listened to them or what they say that it was dumb and it was a scam, I ultimately never would have benefited. None of this would ever have happened. And the only reason I was able to do that and to stick with my gut is because of the fact that I thought for myself and largely ignored what everyone else out there had to say, they were ultimately wrong. And I felt like I was ultimately right, even though of course, prep too, in theory could still fail someday. But in all likelihood, I don’t think that’s going to happen.
And so for that case, myself personally, it paid off enormously just to be able to stick to my own guns and to have that conviction and to think for myself. And this is part of the reason why almost anything now in terms of mainstream narrative, what governments have to say, I’m extremely critical. Not because I’m not, because I don’t think I’m capable of believing anything government has to say. It’s just cause I feel like I’ve refined my own ability to think of myself and challenge what anyone has to see regardless of what authority they have. And I feel like that ultimately leads to great rewards as well because typically it will always be the path less travel that offers the greatest rewards in life. The path that everyone else follows will typically lead to mediocre results. Mediocrity in general, a lot of the greatest rewards will come from thinking for yourself and taking the path less travel.
I think another important lesson to take from all this is to recognize that luck is absolutely real and it’s absolutely undeniable. I know there’s a lot of people in crypto who like to feel that whatever gigs that they’ve been fortunate enough to have made so far are entirely down to their brilliance and intelligence and forethought. But it’s important to recognize that people are lucky to gain exposure to the very idea of crypto in the first place, because this is something that many people were not really in control of. This was relatively random or fortunate based on who they were exposed to, who their connections were for the first time and where they were in the world to be able to gain access to this information. I mean, for myself, the only reason I gained exposure to crypto when I did is because I just so happen to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast.
And of course that wasn’t even to do with anything related to invest there. That was due to an interest that I had in psychedelics and the psychonaut content. So for myself, I consider myself very lucky to have had that opportunity when I dead. I think there were many people who would equally have been eager to dive in and jump into this thing if he even knew it existed. But unfortunately you didn’t even hear about it until maybe late 2017 or maybe there’s people in this world right now who don’t even know about this stuff, who actually would be very passionate about it if they knew it existed. And so to some extent, like is very real and it’s important to recognize that fact that the role that luck plays in the money that a lot of people in the space have actually made in the first place.
But that being said, it’s also important to recognize that even if you’re lucky to have that opportunity gifted to you, it’s still up to you as an individual. It’s your personal responsibility to seize that opportunity and to make the most of it and take advantage of whatever opportunities are ever handed to you in this world. There were many people in this world as early as 29, 2010, 2011, 2012, who actually heard about Bitcoin for the first time, but didn’t do much about it. They didn’t seize the opportunity. And then there were people who only heard about Bitcoin for the first time in sort of late 2016, 2017, like I did, who was still able to make pretty good gains because of the fact that they were open to it. And they actually sees that opportunity compared to their counterparts. Um, but it quickly as well, there were people only heard about it for the first time, late 2017, they got right into it.
They were brave, they were bold and they got burnt. So that’s why I say, you know, luck in terms of when you hear about crypto for the first time, that’s not on you, that is random, but ultimately sees an opportunity that is up to you. And you have to take responsibility for the actions or the non-action that you take. And I guess the final lesson worth it taken from this, or at least that I take from this is the value of always being prepared to pivot, recognizing, again, going back to previous point that sometimes life will hand you an amazing opportunity and it might be worth going away from the path that you were thinking of going down. Maybe you thought your life was going to go in one direction, but sometimes you just skipped. It’s such an opportunity that suddenly you have to switch things up entirely and go on a completely new unexplored path that can be scary at times and can be uncertain in terms of what the final light will be, but it still might be worth it.
I think most of the greatest opportunities in life, well present themselves as a bit odd, a bit quirky, a bit unreliable, a bit insecure, but ultimately that is where many of these opportunities will come and will always come many of the best opportunities, especially around new breakthrough technology will always present themselves as a bit odd as a bit weird. And it’s up to us, you know, we’re not control, we’re not in control of what kind of circumstances we’re brought into into this world, but we can absolutely try and at least control the path that we take and the actions that we take in response to our environment and in response to the changes that we witnessed in the world, the world is never constant. It’s always in a state of change and, um, except to us as individuals to ultimately try and adapt to those changes and to be in a position to succeed and benefit from changes, as opposed to positioning yourself in a way that you will get hurt or damaged from these changes.
Ultimately it’s just kind of basic evolution, Charles Darwin, survival of the fittest. Ultimately, if you want to benefit and survive and thrive, you have to adapt or die essentially. And so I feel like typically in this world of cryptocurrency, those who are able to embrace it the quickest and adapt to it, the quickest and be prepared to potentially in Bandon that the fear of the traditional world, as we know it today, they might be in the best position to thrive. When things take a turn for the worst in the future, those people are in a position to succeed. Those who are very resistant to change might unfortunately find themselves in an unfortunate place in the future. But Hey, that’s just my opinion. Not financial advice is all the YouTube I’d like to say. And so that’s how, I guess that’s my journey. That’s how I got started in the crypto world.